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	<title>Comments on: Terminal Degree For the Academic Librarian</title>
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	<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/</link>
	<description>Blogging by and for academic and research librarians</description>
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		<title>By: Stewart Brower</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-677</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Brower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 16:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-677</guid>
		<description>Just to be clear, I&#039;m actually suggesting a professional doctorate to *replace* the MLS as a new terminal degree, in the same way that the Pharm.D. replaced the B.S. in Pharmacy a few years back. As the Bachelor&#039;s becomes the equivalent of a high school diploma in this country, I think librarians should be required to hold an even more advanced degree than the Master&#039;s. Our profession is becoming more complex over time, more intellectually demanding -- Shouldn&#039;t our terminal degree more appropriately reflect this advancement by being more than just a Master&#039;s?

I&#039;m not married to the idea of a Lib.D. necessarily (as opposed to an Ed.D., say), but I do think that the profession would benefit in many ways from library school becoming a longer, more intellectually rigorous process that also requires a significant practical experience component, such as a clerkship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be clear, I&#8217;m actually suggesting a professional doctorate to *replace* the MLS as a new terminal degree, in the same way that the Pharm.D. replaced the B.S. in Pharmacy a few years back. As the Bachelor&#8217;s becomes the equivalent of a high school diploma in this country, I think librarians should be required to hold an even more advanced degree than the Master&#8217;s. Our profession is becoming more complex over time, more intellectually demanding &#8212; Shouldn&#8217;t our terminal degree more appropriately reflect this advancement by being more than just a Master&#8217;s?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not married to the idea of a Lib.D. necessarily (as opposed to an Ed.D., say), but I do think that the profession would benefit in many ways from library school becoming a longer, more intellectually rigorous process that also requires a significant practical experience component, such as a clerkship.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Fister</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Fister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 15:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-676</guid>
		<description>One problem I have with the notion that it takes a PhD to be a library director is that I&#039;m not frankly sure what value it adds. Is it merely a decoration? A status symbol? Or truly &quot;working knowledge&quot;? 

Any librarian could be a library director if they have the intelligence, the curiosity, the ability to think institutionally and globally, and to be inclined to help a library organization grow. The LIS PhD may be a wonderful thing, but as a credential, it is most appropriately preparation for becoming LIS faculty. We all can learn constantly simply by being curious enough about what we do to conduct and share research - and by developing organizational cultures that promote such learning. 

I&#039;m more concerned that good librarians don&#039;t think about becoming directors because they would have to drop out of a profession they love and become full time administrators within systems that are traditional and hierarchical. They don&#039;t have to be that way. We should all be leaders, whatever our job title. And everyone should have the opportunity to shape the library&#039;s future as their own professional knowledge grows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One problem I have with the notion that it takes a PhD to be a library director is that I&#8217;m not frankly sure what value it adds. Is it merely a decoration? A status symbol? Or truly &#8220;working knowledge&#8221;? </p>
<p>Any librarian could be a library director if they have the intelligence, the curiosity, the ability to think institutionally and globally, and to be inclined to help a library organization grow. The LIS PhD may be a wonderful thing, but as a credential, it is most appropriately preparation for becoming LIS faculty. We all can learn constantly simply by being curious enough about what we do to conduct and share research &#8211; and by developing organizational cultures that promote such learning. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m more concerned that good librarians don&#8217;t think about becoming directors because they would have to drop out of a profession they love and become full time administrators within systems that are traditional and hierarchical. They don&#8217;t have to be that way. We should all be leaders, whatever our job title. And everyone should have the opportunity to shape the library&#8217;s future as their own professional knowledge grows.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Walter</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-674</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 14:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-674</guid>
		<description>Stewart&#039;s point about &quot;another degree&quot; is interesting, but I don&#039;t think we really need another degree in LIS, as much as an opportunity for people to focus clearly on issues related to library administration and the place of the library in the academy.

One easy way to accommodate this within the existing degree structure would be to offer an Ed.D. option in LIS schools (this is really the same thing as the Lib.D. that Stewart suggests, but without the need to create another degree type). Ed.D. programs focus heavily on application, and typically include internships and other activities that allow the advanced degree student to reflect on practice within the context of the discipline.

One reason why I undertook the Ph.D. in Higher Education Administration (and why others are doing the same) is that Higher Ed (whether Ph.D. or Ed.D.) is a field in which one can examine the academic library as part of the broader organization. This is probably possible within any Educational Administration program (if you happen to be located at a school that doesn&#039;t have a Higher Ed program), but it&#039;s very nicely accommodated by Higher Ed programs.

I see the Simmons program, though limited in some ways, as being something of a bridge between those two approaches (and kudos to them for building in an opportunity for rotating &quot;Professors of the Practice,&quot; which is one very nice model for brining practice-based leadership and a scholarly practitioner model into advanced LIS education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stewart&#8217;s point about &#8220;another degree&#8221; is interesting, but I don&#8217;t think we really need another degree in LIS, as much as an opportunity for people to focus clearly on issues related to library administration and the place of the library in the academy.</p>
<p>One easy way to accommodate this within the existing degree structure would be to offer an Ed.D. option in LIS schools (this is really the same thing as the Lib.D. that Stewart suggests, but without the need to create another degree type). Ed.D. programs focus heavily on application, and typically include internships and other activities that allow the advanced degree student to reflect on practice within the context of the discipline.</p>
<p>One reason why I undertook the Ph.D. in Higher Education Administration (and why others are doing the same) is that Higher Ed (whether Ph.D. or Ed.D.) is a field in which one can examine the academic library as part of the broader organization. This is probably possible within any Educational Administration program (if you happen to be located at a school that doesn&#8217;t have a Higher Ed program), but it&#8217;s very nicely accommodated by Higher Ed programs.</p>
<p>I see the Simmons program, though limited in some ways, as being something of a bridge between those two approaches (and kudos to them for building in an opportunity for rotating &#8220;Professors of the Practice,&#8221; which is one very nice model for brining practice-based leadership and a scholarly practitioner model into advanced LIS education.</p>
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		<title>By: Julie Merkel</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-673</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 14:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-673</guid>
		<description>I agree with Marc that the subject-area degree is probably the most beneficial for librarians from the job-hunt standpoint.  I am a new librarian in my first professional position and was very intimidated by the number of job descriptions that indicated a desire for a subject area masters from an ideal candidate, especially in the area of reference services.

However, I can see how the PhD in library and information science might be more helpful if the librarian was interested in getting on the track to be a department supervisor or library director.  I think that a second degree can always be helpful to librarians, but which degree they choose to pursue should reflect their personal goals in librarianship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Marc that the subject-area degree is probably the most beneficial for librarians from the job-hunt standpoint.  I am a new librarian in my first professional position and was very intimidated by the number of job descriptions that indicated a desire for a subject area masters from an ideal candidate, especially in the area of reference services.</p>
<p>However, I can see how the PhD in library and information science might be more helpful if the librarian was interested in getting on the track to be a department supervisor or library director.  I think that a second degree can always be helpful to librarians, but which degree they choose to pursue should reflect their personal goals in librarianship.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc Meola</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-672</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Meola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2006 14:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-672</guid>
		<description>I feel an advanced degree in a subject discipline (MA or PhD) helps immeasurably for subject librarians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel an advanced degree in a subject discipline (MA or PhD) helps immeasurably for subject librarians.</p>
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		<title>By: Library Monk - the blog of Dan Greene &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thoughts on an LIS Ph.D and bit of history</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-671</link>
		<dc:creator>Library Monk - the blog of Dan Greene &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thoughts on an LIS Ph.D and bit of history</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 22:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-671</guid>
		<description>[...] This posting about Ph.Ds is for academic librarians at ACRLog made me think about my long, strange road to the Ph.D program here and where I&#8217;m going afterwards. I&#8217;ll talk about that, at length, in a bit. Basically I&#8217;m getting a Ph.D not so much to be be better qualified for a management job now, but to be ready for one when the opportunity arises. My thinking about a Ph.D was that if I kept going immediately after my Masters I would still be in grad student mode and things would be easier. I also got assistantships for both my first attempt at a Ph.D at UT and again here at Missouri. So I&#8217;m not investing a lot of money, just time. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This posting about Ph.Ds is for academic librarians at ACRLog made me think about my long, strange road to the Ph.D program here and where I&#8217;m going afterwards. I&#8217;ll talk about that, at length, in a bit. Basically I&#8217;m getting a Ph.D not so much to be be better qualified for a management job now, but to be ready for one when the opportunity arises. My thinking about a Ph.D was that if I kept going immediately after my Masters I would still be in grad student mode and things would be easier. I also got assistantships for both my first attempt at a Ph.D at UT and again here at Missouri. So I&#8217;m not investing a lot of money, just time. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Brower</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Brower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-670</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had the idea for some time that library schools would do well to follow the lead of other professional schools that offer doctorates, like the JD for lawyers or Pharm.D. for pharmacists. I blogged a little on my idea for a Lib.D. and would welcome comments.

http://notes.smbrower.com/2006/02/what-about-another-degree-entirely.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had the idea for some time that library schools would do well to follow the lead of other professional schools that offer doctorates, like the JD for lawyers or Pharm.D. for pharmacists. I blogged a little on my idea for a Lib.D. and would welcome comments.</p>
<p><a href="http://notes.smbrower.com/2006/02/what-about-another-degree-entirely.html" rel="nofollow">http://notes.smbrower.com/2006/02/what-about-another-degree-entirely.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scott Walter</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-669</guid>
		<description>Lots of interesting questions here, but I&#039;ll contain myself.

First, if you&#039;ve ever visited the annual ALISE meeting, you know that it is a seller&#039;s market for Ph.D.s with an interest in going into LIS education. I have never seen so many interviews as I saw during my last visit to that meeting. Once I might have noted that one is most sought after at ALISE if one is in the IS-side of the house, but there have been plenty of jobs posted this year for people with interests in library-oriented areas, e.g., reference.  In my mind, the major problem with the Ph.D. in LIS has been its focus in most programs on Information Science (something that Simmons is trying to address, for a select group, with its new doctoral program track). The &quot;I-School debate&quot; in one that doesn&#039;t need to be engaged in a comment field!

Evidence of recent senior hires certainly seems to support Steven&#039;s conclusion that a doctorate is not required for appointment as a library director, but  it certainly has some value (in addition to personal satisfaction and growth) for those in libraries where librarians hold faculty status and the director is part of a Council of Deans (or similar group). Discussions of the degree of value could dovetail with similar discussions among non-librarians of the relative status of the Ed.D. on campus vs. the Ph.D., or of others who operate on campus as faculty without the doctoral degree (e.g., MFAs). Again, that&#039;s another discussion.

Given that I do hold a Ph.D. in Higher Education Administration, I could go on about the reasons why I think that superior to a Ph.D. in LIS, but I&#039;m thinking of proposing that as part of a paper for ACRL 2007, so I&#039;ll let the argument mature a bit :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of interesting questions here, but I&#8217;ll contain myself.</p>
<p>First, if you&#8217;ve ever visited the annual ALISE meeting, you know that it is a seller&#8217;s market for Ph.D.s with an interest in going into LIS education. I have never seen so many interviews as I saw during my last visit to that meeting. Once I might have noted that one is most sought after at ALISE if one is in the IS-side of the house, but there have been plenty of jobs posted this year for people with interests in library-oriented areas, e.g., reference.  In my mind, the major problem with the Ph.D. in LIS has been its focus in most programs on Information Science (something that Simmons is trying to address, for a select group, with its new doctoral program track). The &#8220;I-School debate&#8221; in one that doesn&#8217;t need to be engaged in a comment field!</p>
<p>Evidence of recent senior hires certainly seems to support Steven&#8217;s conclusion that a doctorate is not required for appointment as a library director, but  it certainly has some value (in addition to personal satisfaction and growth) for those in libraries where librarians hold faculty status and the director is part of a Council of Deans (or similar group). Discussions of the degree of value could dovetail with similar discussions among non-librarians of the relative status of the Ed.D. on campus vs. the Ph.D., or of others who operate on campus as faculty without the doctoral degree (e.g., MFAs). Again, that&#8217;s another discussion.</p>
<p>Given that I do hold a Ph.D. in Higher Education Administration, I could go on about the reasons why I think that superior to a Ph.D. in LIS, but I&#8217;m thinking of proposing that as part of a paper for ACRL 2007, so I&#8217;ll let the argument mature a bit <img src='http://acrlog.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Charles W. Bailey, Jr.</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-668</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles W. Bailey, Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-668</guid>
		<description>Most working academic librarians can&#039;t get a Ph.D. in information/library science without quitting their jobs due to a lack of distance education options, the small number of Ph.D. programs in general, and residency requirements.  See the extensive dialog on this topic at: http://www.escholarlypub.com/digitalkoans/category/information-schools/, where it is argued that academic librarians who have faculty status at the associate or full levels are a special population for potential online Ph.D. programs, and that faculty objections to such programs should be reconsidered for this population.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most working academic librarians can&#8217;t get a Ph.D. in information/library science without quitting their jobs due to a lack of distance education options, the small number of Ph.D. programs in general, and residency requirements.  See the extensive dialog on this topic at: <a href="http://www.escholarlypub.com/digitalkoans/category/information-schools/" rel="nofollow">http://www.escholarlypub.com/digitalkoans/category/information-schools/</a>, where it is argued that academic librarians who have faculty status at the associate or full levels are a special population for potential online Ph.D. programs, and that faculty objections to such programs should be reconsidered for this population.</p>
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		<title>By: Cathy</title>
		<link>http://acrlog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/comment-page-1/#comment-667</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://acrlblog.org/2006/02/06/terminal-degree-for-the-academic-librarian/#comment-667</guid>
		<description>Not career insecurity, but advancement.  I just changed jobs and I threw a lot of them out because I didn&#039;t have a PhD.   As one of my previous bosses said, &quot;I&#039;m not a good director because I have a PhD!&quot;  But the faculty do think that having a degree grants some sort of mystic insight into the research process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not career insecurity, but advancement.  I just changed jobs and I threw a lot of them out because I didn&#8217;t have a PhD.   As one of my previous bosses said, &#8220;I&#8217;m not a good director because I have a PhD!&#8221;  But the faculty do think that having a degree grants some sort of mystic insight into the research process.</p>
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